"The Bok Bulldozer Beat The All Black Ferrari" - Reacting To A Test 3 Classic

0:02 Talking Boks, proudly driven by Toyota. >> When there's tough to be done, there's the new generation Hilux. >> It's the morning after the day before and this is Talking Boks, proudly driven

0:16 by Toyota. I'm Brenden Nel. With me as always is Nick Mallet and Gavin Rich. Guys, it's absolutely uh pouring down outside and we're very happy that that didn't come yesterday because if you look out the window now where Jober is,

0:29 it's very gloomy and and full of rain at the moment. Uh but yesterday there was wind but it was an epic test and the Springboks their power game came through at the right time. Nick to start with you just your impressions of the game.

0:42 First half the All Blacks had us a bit on the back foot there and they were certainly were the best better side in that first half. But that second half the box came right at the right time and and now uh you know go to Baltimore full

0:52 of confidence. >> Yeah, good morning guys. I mean that was uh just a classic test match. I I loved every second of it. I couldn't take my eyes off the the television. Um [clears throat] you know we had um

1:05 tremendous defense from both teams. We had some uh beautiful touches from the All Blacks and we had our our our power game which was uh very effective yesterday. I think in a message I sent to a mate, you know, it was the Boach

1:19 Bulldozer that beat the All Black Ferrari yesterday, you know, we were just that much better at uh at um managing to control those vital moments in the second half. Um and we can and we can and we will come to that second

1:32 half. There were some moments that were that were key um to to to keep us in the game and to stop them giving getting that rhythm. But if you think about tries and the reason why I say the sort of Bach bulldozer is because you know 25

1:46 meter mall try with Malcolm Marx you know delivering the coup at the end you know very fittingly banging his hand on the so frustrated with his missed opportunity obviously in the first test. um a penalty trial for a scrum where

2:01 they absolutely disintegrated. We scrummed the living daylights out of them under their poles. Um and then and then our two centers uh in their in their own way um physically dominating. I think it was Carter, maybe both times,

2:14 but once Jesse Kriel running um just bouncing him off and and running straight past him, and then the other one was Damian, whose handoff gave him the time and space to draw and make a beautiful twoon-one for Ars's try. So,

2:30 in every single one of our tries, we had that element of dominance, physical dominance. And um and again, you know, in theirs, it wasn't that they weren't dominant. Listen, the All Blacks also brought do not dominance, they brought

2:43 physicality to the game, especially early on, and their try or Sevilla's two tries were outstanding. Absolutely outstanding. And I thought he was brilliant. Um, so they they it was it was bad luck for their efforts that he

2:58 had to go off the field. My feeling was there was not quite the same leadership in their team in that second half. Uh but it was I mean statistically very similar to the second test in in that they had 56% possession um and and ter

3:12 and they had 54% territory. Uh the big difference obviously were the four scrum penalties. I think we got four scrum penalties against them which not only relieved the pressure for us in our own half so that we could get out under if

3:26 we were under pressure but also put pressure on them and play advantage which was fantastic. So the front row really did their job well. It was just a it was just a a tense hard game that you couldn't until the last five 10 minutes

3:41 when we got the 12 points ahead and that's when I thought we got ourselves really really rolling in that test match. Um you know I was I was very nervous. I thought they had the ability to to crack us open again.

3:55 >> Gav, you want to come in? >> Yeah. Well, Brennan, it was one of those games where, you know, I mean, we're journalists and we're objective, but we're South Africans, so you do want the spring balls to win. Unfortunately,

4:04 that's just a fact. Um, I don't live, I don't come from Christmas Island. I live in Cape Town, so I'm not a neutral. Um, so yeah. Yeah. So, so, so you know, watching the game yesterday was so, so, so when you watch a game and you sort of

4:19 like, oh, a little bit aligned with one of the teams, uh, the thing that's often frustrating for me is when you watch a team and and and your your your side makes mistakes and the other side sort of profit from, it's not that great and

4:31 and then it gets very tense. Yesterday was quite weird because in the first half I just thought the All Blacks were so good that I just sat there and admired how well they played and that sort of tension of of the box winning

4:43 the game sort of almost dissipated and there was a stage when I thought the All Blacks were going to win. I really thought that they uh you know we we' spoken to people I think I spoke to John Plantry last week former All Black

4:54 assistant and he said that they could just run the box off their feet and in that first half it looked like until our scrum started to to assert itself and um we we looked as if we we could be run off our feet but otherwise yesterday was

5:07 very much the sort of game that I've always expected in the series and we haven't seen yet. And it goes back to what we were talking about before before the series started. We talk about um the games that they played against England

5:18 and and other games before you know in the nation's championship where that South African way of just that physicality eventually just taking taking toll on the opposition that was sort of quintessential South African

5:31 rugby where in the second half the the the All Blacks just weren't there physically anymore and it you know it was a it was a whole team effort and you know we've spoken a lot about the All Blacks avoiding contact in the series in

5:42 that second half they weren't avoiding attack in that second half. They were being tackled back like sacks of potatoes and been thrown around around the the the turf. So I think that there will be a big physical toll having taken

5:53 on them as they move on to the next test in Baltimore. So it was almost like a quintessential spring performance. We saw more from the backs yesterday obviously than we than we did in the two previous games as well. I thought Mani

6:05 Labok coming on was was was huge for the for the box. So, it's it's going to be interesting going forward, but it it was a very good performance and it was sort of what we we expected at the start of the series and it was probably around

6:18 about now that we expected that kind of performance to happen. Well, let's talk a bit about that first half because um the All Blacks obviously came with their team selection suggested that they were going to try and run the

6:31 box off their feet and and I thought also the wind played Nicki obviously sitting where you sitting watching it in the stadium you could feel the wind and we were sitting about the same level as the top of the post so there was a wind

6:43 outside it was it was blustery and um but inside you could feel that the wind must have played a bit of a role and especially in that first half you almost felt the Springboks kicks went a bit too far and the All Blacks kicks set up

6:55 perfectly in that wind. But they they they certainly played it a lot better than us and and I still remember turning to Gavin at at s just at Halime when we got that penalty try and saying to him that that was so necessary because if we

7:08 went in behind there we'd have to play catch up in the second half and uh and then just yeah let's talk about the scrums as well because afterwards Rassie didn't want to go on about it. He said hopefully we put the narrative to bed.

7:19 Now Dave Ready suddenly said he has no problems with the Springboks scrum which was which was lovely to hear. Uh but certainly the box scrum maybe not on their ball but on their own ball as you said before relieve pressure when at the

7:31 right time. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I just wanted just a quick mention on Marsh Villi if that's his name. Um the Georgian refer he thought he handled that game really well and not just because he gave us

7:48 scrum penalties. I thought he was he was independent and scrupulously fair. He penalized us for being off sides. He uh you know if if I mean there was one instance a mall where we were 5 mters from our line immediately blew visa for

8:02 being in front of uh of the of [clears throat] the ball um and and and um which is illegal. You've got you got to be at the side of the jumper when you support not slip behind his back. Um and and with the All Blacks, if there were

8:17 signs that they were under pressure in the scrum and giving away and collapsing or or or not being able to take uh the the the power of our scrum when we double shoved. Uh he gave us credit for it. Um I [clears throat] thought so I

8:30 thought that made a hell of a difference in the game yesterday. Um the the All Blacks were looking really good. I mean really beautiful. The way that Will Jordan in the sixth minute just floated his way out of the 22 and ran 40 40

8:44 meters and then chipped and and was going to outrun Sacha I think to get to that ball had it not been for Colby coming back and and saving that situation but from that kick that left foot kick out which didn't go very far

8:57 they then got a line out won a penalty kicked into the corner and that was when they had the powerful Moore round well um the hooker um you know took it up really well in severe picked picked and and and did a pick and go right close to

9:11 the line and scored. So, they were in the game and playing really well. But our our our response was good. Um uh very very good I thought with with Damian de Allende getting the better and getting away and then as you say at 125

9:25 I was thinking hell it would be nice if we could get get something out of that last you know 3 from the 36 minutes onwards and we built pressure there which was really beautiful. And I thought to we got a we got a lucky

9:37 turnover. Was it was it um Rhinuk? There was a a bit of a scrappy thing in the midfield and Rhinuk managed to grab it and give it to Mani and Manne had this mazy run towards the line. Love got a yellow card. We had the scrum. We

9:51 powered over and scored. Suddenly it was 1212 and we went in with a bit of wind in our sales you know and I think that made a a big difference to us um particularly as as you say in that second half where where they ran out of

10:03 puff and missed the captaincy of of Sevilla but there's some interesting things stats that came out of this game um you know the kicks out of hand 19 each I thought we would kick more than them in this game but we held on to the

10:17 ball uh a lot more than we did in the second test where we kicked 34 times. uh our kick meters were 610 and theirs were 564. So, you know, 40 meters in it is not is or 50 m is not a hell of a lot. Um the difference between our bombs and

10:32 our distance kicks were 50/50, you know, eight and six. Uh and um tackles, we had to make 30 35% more tackles than them. 156 tackles we made to their 100. Um but amazing penalty stats, 12 against New Zealand, 11 against South Africa. So, it

10:50 was a very even game. You couldn't say that this was a game where the ref had a big influence on it. It was the players in both teams that had to fight it out and win this game. And I and that's why I started out this little uh this little

11:03 conversation by saying I thought I thought the ref was was very good and not just for us. I thought he was a very good ref and uh and um and gave both teams benefit and he was strong. I mean, Sacha's knockdown, that's a yellow card.

11:18 There's nothing we can do about it. You know, love is a yellow card. It's not saying, "Hell, that's unfair. I think shitty was going. Maybe he had an opportunity to get two hands to it." No, no, no. It was a knockdown and and in a

11:28 funny way, I thought maybe they were going to look at a penalty try there. So, so you know, good officiating made for a great competition between two outstanding teams.

11:41 >> Yeah. Well, actually, Nick, I'd like I'd like sort of going to bring you back in here because, you know, watching the All Blacks play and and and they've scored a lot of tries against the Springboks now. It's it's 13 in three games. Uh clearly

11:55 they they are very good at finishing off and and clearly Dave Renie has has had a big impact. And you know, sitting there after the game last night, I was thinking, well, you know, he's only been in charge there for a couple of well,

12:07 it's it's almost weeks. I think it's two months since he took over and and they've made a huge huge stride forward and obviously the Springboks have had a problem um playing against a a New Zealand team that's that's sort of

12:21 reinvented its game completely. I mean, you know, they they they have twice as many rucks all that and they they're avoiding contact and they're playing a different game. But the question I actually want to ask you as a coach um

12:33 and we're looking now ahead like maybe maybe this is a question I should really ask after the series rather than now. But you know I remember I wrote John Mitchell's book and I remember him him saying one of the things he spoke about

12:45 he spoke about he had a tripartite um attack system that worked really well against the Springboks at in Ptoria in 2003 when they won 5216. remember the unfenic score uh and and and then a week later they put they put the the Aussie

13:01 Eddie Jones's Aussies away by 50 points and it was brilliant. His his his attacking game was working brilliantly and then he got to the semiinal and he suddenly realized that he'd shown his hand and Eddie Jones had had time to

13:14 figure out how to blunt his game. we sort of is and I know you know we we talk about cricket as he come through a batsman will come through and have a brilliant first season and then the bowlers figure out like you know what

13:25 his strengths are and they they start to curb those strengths is there a danger that maybe well I mean I'm not saying I mean they obviously wanted to win the series so it's not like they can hold stuff back but looking forward I mean

13:36 the spring books will go away from the series knowing what New Zealand are coming with them are bringing the next time they play them I mean as a coach like is there a is there that aspect that comes into it that that next time

13:49 we play the All Blacks, and I'm not talking about Baltimore because you can't fix a whole defensive system in a in a week. I'm talking about beyond that, next year's Rugby Championship and next year's World Cup. Um, they more of

14:01 a known quantity, not just to us, but to the other teams they play as well. So, so my my view really is that uh that uh you you try and have a style of play that suits your your players, the players that you can select. So, so um

14:21 if if you're an all black coach, he has decided that skill the skill levels, the passing accuracy and the ability of his forwards to be better than any other team in the world's forwards at playing an open running game is their strength.

14:38 So, he he's not going to undermine that. He's going to select players who are going to contribute to that, make it make it even more powerful. He will he will try and shore up his scrum. you know that is personnel you know they can

14:51 put whichever front row as we said before this uh this test match you know it's not about it's not about uh the Springboks walking around the problem was that they don't have they don't have a front row that over 80 minutes can

15:03 stand up to uh to Wilo and and Marks and and Ox and chair and and that that's a problem that he's going to have to resolve but his lineups even in line outs you know he was going I think there were three or four straight to the first

15:16 guy it wasn't into the jump where we were contesting, but it was to the prop at the front or the scrum off at the front. So, little tricks he can get away with, but generally he's going to be picking players who [clears throat] will

15:27 fit into this pattern of player that he thinks gives his side a massive advantage. And it's what any coach does. It's exactly what Rassie does. No matter how many Tony balls you bring into the team, our feel is that our strengths are

15:40 four pillars which we've mentioned before. You know, very strong setpiece or scrum, really good driving more, an aggressive defense, which I'm going to talk which we can talk about in a moment and contestable kicking and playing down

15:53 and turning the opposition around using kicks and and whenever we get into trouble, we go back to that and and we pick players who can who can uh perform like that. So on Saturday we had we had Sacha playing 10 and Colby at fullback

16:08 and and had there not been um you know injuries I don't think we would have had as many passes in this game for us as we had because when Many comes on it's it's just in his nature to pass. You know he has got a kicking game but his

16:22 preference is to is to give opportunities to players around him. So, [clears throat] so when Mani plays, we play a better attacking game than when I think Pol or Sacha plays. And that's the thing with a coach. The coach when

16:35 you're coaching a team, it's it's the personnel you have that you pick in in each position to make sure they stick to the the way you feel is the strength um of of your side. Uh the defense I I wanted to chat about because even though

16:50 they scored four tries, I thought there were moments in that game where is where our guys were reading it much better. They were coming out the back, they were trying to play the deep one and instead of rushing in in our guys were just

17:03 buying time a little bit on the advantage line or even over it because they had already gone up quite hard. But then we saw Jesse and we saw um and we saw Damian and Ethan Hooker and Arens. uh you know slowing not slowing down but

17:18 not rushing in you know just allowing them they bought time by just going across the field instead of up and trying to smash the players and I thought that was quite effective I mean they they did score two tries in the

17:30 second half the one after the whistle I thought our guys had already won the game so it wasn't they weren't defending for their lives and that grabber that went through I think had a very fortuitous bounce and uh it was uh it

17:41 was beautifully played by and and and you know obviously Will Jordan made the most of it, but um but otherwise I thought we defended really well in that second half and and didn't allow them the time and space that that Denini is

17:53 looking for as a point of difference. >> Gav, just just to before you come in there, I just want to say one of the things that um we spoke earlier in the week about about about the how to tweak the defense and we had Grant Bashford

18:06 also came on the with us uh on Friday and just said he didn't think they could fix it that quickly, but there are tweaks that they can make. Uh the box did read it a lot better uh in that well the entire game, but there still are

18:20 some issues that need to sort out uh going into Baltimore. >> Well, Plum Plum John Plum John Plumley did mention, you know, he mentioned the Ethan Hooker, the importance of Ethan Hooker and he thought that that was a

18:32 good selection as well and obviously he's coached him at the shock so he knows how clever he is defensively. I I just thought like, you know, going back to what Nick was saying and in the second half of that game, it was the

18:42 first time that for a while that I I've saw that sort of effect that the def the Springbach defensive system has where it looks like the opposition are almost like having to run around behind the game line and and being hit behind the

18:54 game line. We haven't really seen that in the series. They managed to sort of get you crab across the field and then sort of get somebody running off the angle and then they get the break. But but in that second half, they weren't

19:03 doing that. I don't know if that was because Tepea Quinte went off injured um because I think he is very important very important to their game but yes um obviously the the there is something to think about going forward because we now

19:19 know how how New Zealand play I mean and they are set up completely differently to how they were and we've got very clever people in in that springbook um uh brains trust um that that that will figure it out between now and and the

19:33 end of a year. So, you know, I'm not a defensive expert, so I can't say exactly what tweaks can be done in a week, but there were definitely improvements improvements yesterday. And um yeah, you didn't get that feeling in the second

19:45 half that the like like we did last week. And remember too, like to to Nick's point as well about, you know, we sort of criticized the defense, but we've also got to remember that that that the All Blacks, you know, with

19:56 their their ruck speed and everything, the amount that the ball they get, they get a lot of really good possession. So, so we're actually defending a team that's got possession. I mean, we're not playing against Mickey Mouse here. We're

20:07 playing against a very good rugby team. So, so, so you've got to take that into account. I mean, I think that there might be people in New Zealand this morning who who are lamenting the the All Black defense. I mean, when when we

20:18 ran at them and and we mentioned, we mentioned their wing. Um, there there probably are feelings there that that they didn't defend too well. Um, you know, and we we got less ball than them. So, yeah. So, it's going to be very

20:31 interesting going forward. >> Passionate about the defense. I think we we stopped the front door or there was one really good break by um was it uh who who went through was it Jacobson I think it was who went through

20:45 and then we or or Sati I can't remember in the second half where the guy went off the the short runner and they got a lovely line break but that was about the only time I felt oh dear here here we go again type of thing.

20:58 I I thought I just want to stop at one moment there because you often talk about turning points in the game and um I think uh yeah if if you look at after that first half we had as we said the scrum was was vitally important to go

21:11 and we went in with a bit of wind in ourselves but that second half when they scored early um and we hit them straight back with Jesse's try that almost sort of gave us so much so much of a lift from where I was sitting uh and and

21:25 suddenly the box were boyed and they their forwards were on top and and you know and then then the mall started working and and things like that. So just focus on that moment. Do you guys agree that that that was almost a

21:36 turning point and we hit them with Jesse scored that try? >> Um yeah I I think it was I think I think it was it was a it was it was a combination. It was Jesse's try and then that mall try. I don't know if you can

21:49 come back from a mall try like that. I mean they were really really sort of um poor in defending that more the the New Zealanders and and you know to score a 25 meter mall try is huge but there were other little moments I remember at the

22:03 time note I haven't got my notebook here but I mean well my laptop's on you know I don't have a notebook I do everything on my laptop um the the Jasper there was a Jasper visa turnover at some point that that I thought was very important I

22:16 that one kick that that where they kicked it too long and it was quite funny seeing some some people commenting on New Zealanders commenting on social media saying that it was a Rassie trick that that the the tri that the that the

22:28 in goal area wasn't big enough and why was that in goal area why was that in goal area so small and my response to that is guys it's in a professional era and you and you're coaching a professional team you surely know the

22:40 dimensions of the field you can't turn around and say well the guy kicked it long because he thought that there was a normal size area we know that you know obviously that it might be a smaller area because it's a soccer I don't know,

22:51 but I doubt very much that Rassie went to the extent of of of making of ordering a smaller in goal area so that New Zealand would kick it long and we'd have then have a scrum, which was also a momentous point of the game. So, so there were a

23:04 couple of to turning points, but but but you could also go back to to to the to the penalty trial as a turning point. When you get destroyed like that in the scrum, it's got to do something for your confidence as the team that was trying

23:17 to defend that. And it's got to do the opposite for the team that um that scores that try. In the second half, the box were playing against I didn't think the the the All Blacks used the wind, by the way. But because it was a I mean,

23:29 you Nick, you went there, but it was the the wind was quite strong and Yeah. And and you can see that when when people early in the game were kicking and that was just sort of going sort of diagonally off after off to touch but um

23:43 the box scored that try and then early in the second half the the all blacks did have a little bit of territorial dominance initially. They missed that penalty. Uh Ruben Love missed missed that penalty. Um but at the same time

23:56 when I was watching the game from the press box I just felt that the box was starting to get that um physical dominance and in the first half like that's what one thing we haven't mentioned is that you know often in the

24:07 series we've gone out there and dominated physically early on and do dominated the collisions. We did it in C we certainly did it in Johannesburg and we did it in Cape Town but All Blacks actually fronted very well apart from

24:18 running nearly running off of our feet in that first half. They fronted very well in the collisions. I remember saying to you, I said, "These guys are these guys are stopping us are stopping us today." But it's just like that

24:28 relentless nature of the spring game that eventually I think wears you down. And and that's and that's what happened yesterday. And early in that second half, I felt that that that that started to happen even though the All Blacks had

24:40 some sort of territorial ascendancy in the first 10 or 12 minutes of that of the second half. Yeah, Gav, you know, if if we if we think about what we'd be saying now about a Spring player [clears throat]

24:53 missing a tackle like like um you know, I think Carter did on on Kriel um and and and being handed off by by Jallander, we we would be livid, you know, we would say, listen, you know, that guy, he's got to he's got to get

25:07 his tackle technique right. And you know, he there's no place in an international team with a guy who can't tackle a bloke on a one-on-one. And um and so so that that was a good point. You know, we are the ease with which we

25:20 just shrugged him off and and went and scored um was uh was very rewarding for South Africa and very very disappointing from a New Zealand point of view. [snorts] Um, I think I think in that time the the timing of Love's miss kick,

25:35 the timing of Sacha's successful kick, our try, Kriel's try, and then um then that that that driving mall try, hell's teeth, that must have I mean, you know, they were just they tried to defend it, but they you know what that whole

25:52 swimming round, they weren't allowed to do it. They were being called out called out. They couldn't get enough bodies behind and our guys were relentless, you know, just kept going, kept going. And there's a beauty in a driving mall that

26:05 absolutely just unstoppable. And you know, you can go on about bloody, oh, it's not it's not detractive to watch. I disagree entirely. It's a if you're a rugby coach and you're and you're and you with a pack of forwards and uh they

26:19 get the set right, the height of it right, they get the bind right, the ball is protected and they are low and they're moving forward, you know, relentlessly. It's very, very hard to stop. And the opposition have to put

26:32 numbers in. That's all. You can't just defend with four and think you're going to get away with it. You've got to put six, seven, eight in there. And if that's not enough, you got to put a couple of backs in as well. and if you

26:42 don't um you know we're going to score and if you do it opens up space for our backs to score if if if you put too many people in there. So it's a very valuable part of our game as is our scrum and and that's one thing I that that that would

26:57 be worrying me if I was involved with the with the All Blacks uh going into next year's World Cup. It would be um it would be you know it's we are playing this brand of rugby and we do create lots of opportunities but we're not as

27:09 good as a lot of other teams. They're not as good as England at defending them all or not as good as England in the scrum either, I don't believe. Um and and France is going to if France is if they can if France can find a tight

27:20 head, they they're going to cause all sorts of troubles. So So it's not just South Africa that's that's causing them to have problems. They've got to find a a tight five that can match. Don't have to dominate, but you have to match. You

27:34 can't just you can't be a weak point and this team and then your backline has got to put in tackles. You got you got to you got to put people on the ground. We saw more people knocked over by Esen in the first test and here we saw another

27:47 one just knocked over by Kriel and handed off. So So um you know those are problems that they've got that luckily we we haven't. Let's look at just maybe a bit of a bigger picture thing and and Gabe you can come in here first. Um what

28:02 both teams have learned now Dave Rooney to his credits done pretty well for being in the off in in the job. I think it's 71 days or something. The the New Zealanders told me yesterday it's some press. But I mean for 71 days to come

28:14 here and have a series like this, it was an exceptional series and the rugby quality of rugby. I know we had a lot of off-field stuff going on during the series, but the quality of rugby was exceptional that for them they'll have

28:26 taken a lot out of this for the World Cup. As Nick said, they've got some problems that they might they need to sort out, but there's there's a lot of positives for them as well in terms of knowing which players can front up and

28:35 which players they need to work on. Uh I I think this is more or less the core group. I'm not sure we're going to see too many outsiders next year in the group from from for the World Cup, but Ruben loves done pretty well. Um and

28:46 there's a lot of those guys that Dave Renie will be happy about. So maybe then Nick, you can come in afterwards. Just just your thoughts on what they take out of it and what we take. I suppose from our point of view it's the fact that the

28:57 same team delivered again when the when the chips were down and uh and and Rassie has got that now but we got to look at I suppose we going to make some changes towards next year. Well, firstly, Brenden, you're talking about the series

29:09 in in past tense, and I know we've differed over this, but and I agree that I agree that there was a mini a minieries in South Africa, and it was very important for South Africa to defend this territory and make sure that

29:21 that New Zealand can't go home thinking even if it was two or go home and say, well, we conquered South Africa like we did in two in 1996. Uh there is a game to go and I'm going to be interested to see how that game goes. I've always felt

29:35 there's going to be one blowout in the series. I've said it to you before. Um and that um and when I say that I'm talking about a Wellington type thing and I I've got a we can talk about this later in the week, but I've got a funny

29:45 feeling that's going to happen next week and then I'll see you know what what conversation we have then. I think it is I think Rassie's very determined now to round off the series and to to get the full hold of of that earn. But looking

29:58 at New Zealand like firstly they do they can strengthen. They can definitely strengthen before next year. Scott Barrett isn't playing at the moment and he's well he was their captain and he's he's one of their best locks and there

30:09 is talk of Brady Retelli who who is an excellent form in New Zealand and and to me has been the best all black lock of the last 20 years. I can't think of anybody else who comes who comes close to

30:21 >> Sam White may be close. >> Sam Yeah, I forgot about Sam Whitlock. But but even Sam Whitlock, those two in tandem were actually very good. So So Brady Brady Retellic is is an excellent lock. So they can improve that. We

30:34 haven't seen Richie Moanga yet on this tour. Um only in the game against the Lions and some of the Kiwi journalists have explained to me that he is a World Cup project that Dave Reini never really anticip uh wanted to to play him now. he

30:47 wants to get him back into the New Zealand way of doing things and and that's understandable and we can probably expect to see uh Richie Monga play a couple of games at number 10 in the Championship games overseas at the

30:59 end of the year uh where there's some interesting games that they're going to be playing as well against England. I'm looking forward to that to that game because I agree with Nick about their about their forwards. That's that's

31:09 clearly an area that they have going to have to improve and and it's a conversation I had with with Alex with Alex Low of the Times. um I can't remember after which test it was where we were talking about how um the All

31:21 Blacks have become sort of ascendant and now suddenly they might be among the favorites for the World Cup and the and I said to him I said well there's a reason why I'll always make the Springboks more favored to win a World Cup than

31:33 the All Blacks. It's because they have got the essentials that you need to win a World Cup. Our pack is not going to be as easily dominated by somebody like France as the All Blacks might be. We're not going to be v as vulnerable to to

31:46 England as the All Blacks might be, which is which is really what what what uh I was going to say Rassie what Nick was saying just now. Um it's uh it's it's it is so so so they can definitely improve. I do think though that there

32:00 might also be a little bit of that new sort of that newness to Dave Renie that that you know everybody's saying well that's uh you know it's it's very ludable that he's got them working so well so quickly which it is but at the

32:12 same time as I said earlier I also think that because what because what he's bought is new it's also sort of got a bit of a surprise element for opposition teams that it might not have next July August when we play rugby championship

32:27 games and start building up towards the World Cup. >> So yes. Yeah. I again I go back I go back they've they they played a couple of youngsters Lord Derry um and and V at lock. Um Vice [clears throat] obviously

32:43 can play play on the flank very effectively. Um but but I think Retallik would make a big difference. Um and and uh and and Barrett as well. But uh the front row guys, the front row is they've got good ball carrying hookers. Are they

32:58 that good in the lineout? We're still not absolutely certain. Although they won uh you know they I think we managed to sneak one of their lineups. Um so the lineups were very even yesterday. But um but in terms of that scrummaging you

33:11 know is Lommax a strong enough tight head? Is uh you know do they have enough loose heads to handle a Wilco Low or you know a really dominant tight head prop? Um, you know, those are the question marks. You It's It's hard to win a game

33:25 when you're giving away four penalties at scrum time. You know, uh, it really is. And it and and a lot of those are on the opposition ball where they're giving they they're not they're not releasing it at number eight. They they're going

33:38 again. And you you know that on your ball, you're going to have to be at 100% to win it. And sometimes the referee allows you if the scrum collapses and the ball's at the back to play away. He did that yesterday a couple of times

33:49 when the when the scrum collapsed. He said to both South Africa and to New Zealand, play away, which is fine. But um but there were other occasions when they were so badly dominated and so badly pushed backwards that the ref

34:03 [clears throat] had no other um option but to but to penalize them. And if you're trying to build pressure, you don't build pressure uh without being able to handle your own ball and handle the opposition ball at scrum time. So,

34:16 so that is a question mark that that uh they're going to have to either get a I mean a really good scrum coach in or or or find different personnel. And I don't think they've got different personnel. They just got to make these guys better

34:30 if they can. Um otherwise, Richie Manga, you know, he was uh you know, I know that Razer Robertson complained a lot about not having him um you know, available and saying other teams can get their guys who in different countries

34:43 and I can't. Uh but Lab has done well and uh and and he looks uh he looks the part and I think maybe Richie will get a go in this next one in Baltimore. But um but he is a very talented fly halfoff. He really is and uh

34:57 is five five or six years older than Love. So has that experience um you know it's quite quite interesting from our point of view where do we go now after that Mani performance. What was quite interesting was at the end of the game.

35:09 I felt they scored that last try because Mani overplayed the last five minutes. You know, we were in there, we were in their half. We didn't need to chuck it around and try and make it a 45 point. We just had to just finish the game. But

35:22 a couple of passes too many, a knock on, gave them possession, they got into a half, we were under pressure and they scored. So um while you you do bring the players around you into the game and you provide um a lot of direction on attack

35:36 um that you have to have the ability to understand this is not in the team's interest to play like this. I don't care about you know about uh looking good or looking bad. We want to get we want to win by 12 points. Get on the plane go to

35:50 Baltimore and win by another 12 points 15 points there. Then I've done my job as a as a flyoff directing the team. So, so you know, I I would uh I would I would say that Pollard would never have made that that mistake and probably

36:04 Sacha is getting better at not making that mistake now. And it's one that Mani must always be careful about. It's interesting you say that there because I I turned turned to Gavin in that exact moment and I said we're

36:17 playing too much at this moment. We were throwing the ball around and I think we both agreed at that moment. just get the get down, take it in, get the ball out, run down the clock because you got you are 12 points up and it was a bit

36:30 disappointing from that point. But let's turn to Baltimore now because obviously the box [laughter] Gavin Gavin's been tracking them on flight radar apparently. Uh but they they they were they've gone to a flight with the All

36:41 Blacks, a charter flight together. Should have been an interesting one to be a fly on the wall in that because one team was obviously very much more happier than the others. But it'll probably be a week where there's very

36:51 little training done. There'll be more focus on getting over the jet lag and getting the bodies ready. Uh there are certainly a couple of changes to make and and I think from a Springboks point of view, Gav, I'll bring you in first.

37:02 Uh you you'd think the box would want to use this opportunity to give a a couple of the the rest of the guys because they didn't have the opportunity like they probably planned to to to change up in the in in the series like they would

37:14 have. Uh I think a guy like M Fab had a wonderful cameo. Barney other than that point we spoke about really that break he had there's some really nice things he did as well and so uh we Rassie told us that Bone Fent and Tukum Chunu um

37:30 Benj Dixon and Chzon's obviously got a broken jaw now so he's not going with so those guys and there's there's one other that I'm I'm forgetting now but he forgot last night he didn't tell us as well but the majority of that squad's

37:42 going through Damian Villim is fit Canan Moody's fit um trying to think who else. Uh but they they've got a great squad to if they want to change up that they can do this week. >> Well, I've always expected them to

37:55 change up for this last for this last game and I think Mani was probably always slated to start in in this last test as well, I would imagine. Um I I I do like he he he has a very good record against the All Blacks. I'd like to see

38:07 what his record is actually. Um like yesterday was was interesting because you know he came on as a fly halfoff but you know the the the the fly halovves cover the back field. so so much these days and Sacha came in it. So you

38:20 actually never I mean there were times when you didn't know who was playing fly off and who was playing fullback and that's actually a great thing to have and and and Damian Villim is back available next week as well. So it's not

38:29 like we need to pick Sacha at fullback but but I do like that combination. Um and and obviously um Damian Villimsa does does the same thing too. In fact, Vill Laru used to do it. He used to come in as a as a first receiver. So it's um

38:44 it's there's there's there's a very interesting sort of options available to Rassie. I think that this that that the the All Blacks and I know that I'm sort of going out on a limb now, but I I do sort of feel that the All Blacks might

38:56 have been a bit softened up now after yesterday. I've sort of been expecting that to happen in the series and I think it's we finally got to that point where we we can possibly play a a Canan Moodie and give him give him a go. Um, our best

39:10 performances, you know, when it comes to big wins against the All Blacks, Mani has been at FL at Flyoff, Kane Moody has been at outside center. Um, I don't know if against this All Black team. I'd move away from Jesse Kre. I just I just feel

39:24 that we need that defensive I mean there a different they're a different animal to what they were last year. So, and I don't think that Canan Moodie's defensiveness is is is is the same as as and he hasn't played for a while. So, so

39:37 that's also the thing that you've got to take into account is now when we saw what happened to the box in the first test where I think that the main problem was that we were rusty. Um I so so we you know how many of the different guys

39:50 are you going to bring in but we do have the depth to freshen up and and we do have more depth than them I think. I mean I've seen people saying well the All Blacks must change this and they must play that and they must they must

40:01 bring other guys in. their change up team wasn't that good in in um the their best performance against one of our clubs was [clears throat] against the Sharks when they had their more or less their test team playing or they had the

40:12 sort of basics of of the test team that that other team um could could have lost to the Stormers and were actually lucky to win again well they they did very well to come back but they were they look very vulnerable against the against

40:24 the Lions in in Johannesburg. So I don't think that there's that many changes that the Orbs can I mean, they can probably bring in um Blackader and they can bring in um the Ionyi, you know, I think he's a really good player, but I

40:38 also think he might have defensive weaknesses as a number 13, too. So, they're going to they're going to have to make changes obviously because they've lost they've lost Arti See and and probably Quintea to to injury. But

40:50 the box um the box can fresh. Now I I've got a feeling that you know Eban Eban sort of didn't look as like he had as much energy yesterday as he had the in the previous game. Maybe we'll see KBA visa come in. Um I've I've said it

41:05 before and I'll say it again. I'd love to see Lur start at some stage. So we've got options. We we we we've got options to change it up. I'm actually sorry that Ben Jason isn't there though because I think Ben Jason brings that extra sort

41:17 of phys physical element both as a potential lock and as a as and as a blind side flanker um to to the bench but otherwise the box have got a lot of they've got a lot going for them until this last week. They we've always said

41:31 that that their depth is better than than the All Blacks and that will be the telling aspect and now I think is the week that that that it's going to show. >> Yeah. just listening to you chat there. I

41:43 mean, I was thinking of a backline that that could possibly go out, but knowing Rassie, he'll probably do uh you know, something completely different. But if if you if you think I'm not sure how Grant Williams is now with he's over

41:55 recovered from his injury, [clears throat] but I've always liked Grant Williams off the bench. I think he brings a lot of speed and a lot of electricity in the last 20 minutes. But I I've I I did say a while back that I

42:07 thought Bouet Funberg was highly underrated and he he really was good when he came on. One little knock on was the only mistake. His defense was outstanding. He was all over. He's like a you know he was like uh you know in

42:20 their faces a lot rather like fuff used to be. Um so so you you know you could you could go with Mon with uh with Mani um at center. You could have Damian at inside center and um Canan Moodie at outside center. Ethan Hooker, Orin, and

42:36 fullback Sacha. That's a hell of a backline, you know, and and you know, on the bench, Grant Williams, maybe a Pollard who hasn't had an opportunity just yet. Um, and then and then in the forwards, Corbus, give a rest. Um, I

42:49 think LUT would be a great a great idea, but have Noia on the bench as well, so he could come in in case in case there's a, you know, he's blowing a bit at the end. And then our front rows are interchangeable, you know. So whether we

43:01 start with the wet weather one or the dry weather one, it's irrelevant. They're going to get they're going to get 45 to 55 minutes uh depending on on on who goes on when um and and so your your um your Dion Fiz and and and and

43:17 Thomas DeToy and Stenump whether they start or come on second and and this and the other front row are are Wilco Lo and Marx and and Oxen Chair are brilliant. So, so they are interchangeable. The the point you make about Ben Jason is a very

43:33 good one because when do we rest Peter Steph, you know, now you can say I'm not sure how much he has maybe hasn't had a lot of rugby playing in Japan, but geez, he's had a lot of rugby playing now in the nation's cup games and captaining

43:45 the team and now he's had a lot of responsibility and um you know perhaps perhaps that would have been an opportunity to give Ben Jason uh you know a chance to play in Peter Steph's position but uh you

43:58 know they they they haven't decided to do obviously um they're wanting to finish off on a good note. I think there will be changes, freshen up, but but um still that backline that I mentioned is a really good one. And I I I'm not sure

44:12 I agree with you. I think that I think that uh um Canan Moodie reads defenses very well at outside center as well. I mean, I remember his very first game as a 19 or 20 year old handling Ioni with ease in that 35 points to seven win at

44:27 Twickenham. So he's also had a and and he's got some lovely skills, passing skills. The try we scored against Argentina was an example of that with Esther Hazen. So remember we've got Esther Hazen as well. Gee, we've got

44:40 we've got lots and lots of um of good players who champing at the bit. So that is our situation and perhaps it might not be the situation in in the All Black camp. But let me just say this, this is this has been nip and tuck this series.

44:53 It hasn't been. You can't go away saying, "Okay, well, in the quarterfinal if we play New Zealand, you know, we are we are, you know, strong bloody favorites." I don't think so. I think every time they these two teams run out,

45:06 I'm thinking, who the hell's going to win this one? It's it's it's great for sport and um and from a rugby perspective, it's wonderful if you love your rugby uh to see two these two different patterns, two two different

45:18 ways of playing the game and and uh and you know trying to get dominance. So there it's fantastic that New Zealand is where they are. They're definitely the second best team in the world. We're the best at the moment. But um look how

45:32 quickly it changed. They won one test and suddenly they were they were considered the best team in the world. So, um it's going to go like that all the way to the World Cup in my opinion. >> It's time for our choice of Toyota's

45:46 toughest player. Uh when you're looking for reliability, you're looking for something as tough and reliable as the new generation Hilux. And uh there's many candidates as we said last week. Yeah, you almost got more than a handful

45:58 to pick from. Uh so I I think let's start. I mean to me the couple of guys stood out. Malcolm Marks, Ethan Hooker got man of the match. Nick, uh just your thoughts. >> Yeah, this this is a classic case of uh

46:10 of of for me, you know, rugby being such a great team game and the team actually um producing an excellent performance. I I I can't I can't think of anyone who had a bad game. You know, I thought they all contributed unbeliev and I'm not I'm

46:25 not trying to um you know um avoid a difficult decision here. If you go through the team, I mean, Cheslin when he was on the field did did wonderfully well. Arinster took his try well, went back, made a great tackle. You uh sa try

46:39 saving tackle. Um you had you had Ethan Hooker who was all over the field yesterday, not only in the high balls, but also phys with his physicality, keeping the ball in play and keeping Will Jordan as as best he could under

46:51 control. And then Jesse Kriel and and and Damon Dallander were outstanding. Excellent. And then in the forwards you oxen share you had you had Malcolm Marx as he was in every single game. Um he's always a standout. I thought Sier Khisi

47:06 in the time he was on the field you know made a big physical impact as well. Um so you know you can't take away Stephy's defense and the number of tackles he made in that game. It's very very hard for me to pick a an individual who rises

47:21 above the the team effort. I think it was a real team effort yesterday and it was more that the um you know the way the team played together uh that that won us that game rather than an individual.

47:35 >> Yeah. No, like I' I'd agree with that. Um I think this is probably a week where we where we give it where we give it to the team. Just some some shout outs. um oxen chair, you know, um he wasn't mentioned in that many dispatches

47:47 afterwards that I read, but you know, it was it was a sort of our scrum who sort of steadied us at one stage when the All Blacks looked like they might actually just um back up their their promise that they'd run off run us off our feet or

47:59 run the Springboks off their feet. Um the the scrum the scrums are outstanding. Malcolm Marx is probably South Africa's consistently most valuable player. I mean, we spoke about Kuba's visaspa

48:11 visa earlier on the season. He he's been sort of looked after by the All Blacks a little bit since then. He was good yesterday. He made a very important turnover at one stage and he did carry well in occasions, but hasn't really

48:22 sort of been allowed by the All Blacks to to to get the momentum he did in the early tests. And that's also that I mean, you would have noticed that they don't kick off to him anymore. I mean, in in that Ellis Park game, they they

48:33 kicked off to him just about any time and and and then nearly paid for it. But yeah, I mean they're just and also Nick what what you say about the centers. Um I know in my superport.com match m match report yesterday I didn't really mention

48:45 the centers and and I regretted it afterwards. It it they were they were immense. They were they were just so strong in every aspect of the game. Uh Jesse's try obviously and and and then obviously holding those two defenders

48:57 Damian Deendi set up Curtly Oren's first try. So so yeah. So, so the team a team effort. The the Toyota's toughest player was well 23 guys yesterday. >> Yeah. Well, sometimes you need the whole team to get together and and take that.

49:13 So, well, that's an easy one then. And I don't think anybody's got any qualms for it. I don't think, you know, we we love to single out performers, but I think guess they their whole team was the right performer. So, that's our toughest

49:25 player. Guys, let's move on a bit. >> Nick, just one quick question. You you mentioned you mentioned you said we can play Damian at 12. Which one? >> Sorry, I mean Damian Villimson. Damian Villima. I think I'm I'm 100% with you.

49:41 I think that guy is is a brilliant player and and also that just just because he's those guys have given everything. Kriel and Damian have done the job. They've done really well. So this is you know Damian Villim at inside

49:53 center you know is uh is just a masterful rugby player. He's he's got huge physicality. He steals on the ground. He's got a unbelievable step and um and he brings a joy to that position that that I think Mani definitely loves

50:08 and Sacha loves and there's a little bit of a a they've played a lot together those three. So, you know, I think that would work. But, um but but then again, Jesse and Damian have done nothing wrong. So, if you're wanting to if

50:23 you're wanting to make sure that we go 3-1 up and uh we're wanting to to to you know bulldoze them over again which we which we can quite easily do. We just need a fresh back of forwards but the backline will be able to do the job.

50:36 We've got the the size and strength in Jesse Esther Hazen and and Damian Dalander to do >> the idea of having Damian at sorry just the idea of having Damian at center having Fineberg and Gazulu at fullback

50:50 and having Mani at fly halfoff I mean and Canan actually who's got that as you say with that very good attacking attacking ability um that that you were salivating at what could happen with those three those three guys in

51:03 particular all on the field at the same time. I mean Villimsa, Sacha Fineberg and Engulu and and Mani and and Villimsa and as John Dobson would always say Villima and Sacha are sort of generational talents. So so I hope I do

51:16 hope that we do see that next week. >> I was going to say just one quick question that came up as well. We talked about how we can freshen up but the All Blacks have got one poser as well especially with RD out and some of the

51:29 Kiwi journalists were telling me that they think it might be the end of the road for Cody Taylor. the fact that he was dropped this week. That's the the way they were talking earlier this week. But they're gonna probably have to

51:38 either bring him back or name a new captain, maybe somebody like Luke Jacobson to take them into this test. Just a quick thought on you and then we'll close off with a with something a bit left field.

51:49 >> You've you're making me sort of take the first ball too often in this. I like I'd rather see I'd like to see Nick to take take the first ball for [laughter] >> I'll be out. I'll be caught in the slips.

52:02 Um, I actually to be honest with you, Bren, um, I would be sort of just I'd just be talking Geralus rubbish if I told you who I thought should be the all black captain. I haven't I haven't really thought about it. Um, it's uh,

52:15 who was leading? It was Jacobson who was leading them yesterday. Um, you you know was who Okay. Um, I'm trying to think of who who led them against the lines. It was Tupa. Um, so he's I don't know if he's going to play. Yeah. So, Taluta. I

52:31 I I actually I actually don't know. Maybe maybe Nick's got an idea. Maybe he can be an All Black selector, but I'm going to step out of this one. >> Yeah. Again, you know that Renie knows his team and his squad the best and who

52:44 the guys, you know, they who they respect the best. Um but also that your captain has to be very good with the referee these days. you know, he's got to be unthreatening and he's got to be um you know, questioning, but uh but not

52:57 in a way that makes the referee um you know, get his hackles up and and and it can count against your team. So, I think I think he's got a lot of a lot of confidence in Jacobson um for them for them to freshen up. It looked like they

53:12 went for a lighter team this time to try and run us off our feet on the dry, you know, on the high felt as it were. uh and and and he put you know all his money on that. Um you know I don't think he'll ever go back to saying okay let's

53:26 outmuscle the box but perhaps perhaps a little bit more physicality in the lock and maybe vi at flank uh and um and uh and in the backline the experience of Moanga could come in there. Um I think that um they've got some good centers

53:41 and and you know that that that wildad winger there of theirs, you know, fe whatever his name is, Jeepers when he's been impressive whenever he's played. So um so it's not as though they're lacking talent in the back. Certainly not in the

53:55 backline. Um and they and they can freshen up, but in the backline in, you know, in loose forwards and backs, they've got plenty of players. At locks, they've got plenty of lineout jumpers. Not great. They're not great at at at

54:08 ball carries and they're not great Holland. I I I I'll make an exception. I think Holland is is a outstanding find and I think he's done really well for them. Um but again, we go back to that thorny issue of the front row. You know,

54:21 they've got they've got who they've got and whether they start with with one front row or the other, they are always going to be under pressure in that part of the game, whoever they pick they pick. So, it's not about freshening up.

54:32 It's just about getting them technically better. And I'm not sure he's going to be able to do that in one week. >> I I want to finish off quickly with just I know I know there's still the fourth test. So Kevin G's going to remind me of

54:43 that as well when I say it. And and Gav, you don't have to face the first ball on this one. I I'll give it to Nick first. Uh just your favorite part of the of of this this these three tests in favorite moment or your favorite it can be

54:56 onfield, offfield. I just thought you just maybe reflect a little bit about how great the series has been and and just you the moment that you'll remember if you look back at the series now. So Nick, you can go first on that one.

55:08 >> Okay. Was I mean, you know, that's a that's you know there's so many things there's so many things that I've loved about this series, the anticipation of it, the um the quality of the of of of the All Blacks. Um the way they've

55:21 challenged us and forced us to get better in areas of our game. um the way we've challenged them in areas of their game that they need to improve on. Um I think the uh respect between the two teams has been uh uh tangible. You can

55:36 really get a sense that there's massive respect between the players and and uh and that's a wonderful thing. They it's not anyone I mean the tackle of Sio Kesi against Sevilla from from when he when he had to turn his back to catch a ball

55:50 in the line out and he absolutely cut him in half. He's one of his best friends. I mean, that sums it up. You know, you go as hard as you can on the field, off the field, you shake shake the guy's hand and have a beer. And I

56:00 had that feeling. Um the um for for me, you know, the the biggest disappointment possibly was Mark's dropping the ball or having the ball stripped over the line as he goes on the mall try in that first test, which could have actually set us

56:15 up to to start a really good first half. the disillusion there and their ability to score against us and uh that that loss with the number of turnovers we had that was disappointing and then uh seeing him bang his hand on the ground

56:32 having had a 25 meter uh try was a highlight for me you know I just I just loved seeing um you he you know the you know him getting a reward for an unbelievably gutsy series that he's had Malcolm Marx And the Packer forwards

56:48 scored that try. He knows it. He's the one who's put down as the guy who uh who scored the try. But remember, you know, with the Packer forwards went over as well in that first uh in that first test and and the ball was stripped from his

57:01 hands. So there is responsibility in staying in that mall in being right behind us to make sure that you don't get isolated or get uh someone pull you over. So I was that that moment when he scored, I realized we were going to win

57:15 that game. I was absolutely I was absolutely delighted. But um uh just a final word um both coaches a lot of respect both coaches very clever with the way they very clever utilizing the media for their for their own um

57:31 benefits and uh and I think uh something must be done about world rugby allowing them I mean if they want to say five clips that's fine but let one coach go to the referee with his five clips have a chat push off let the other coach come

57:45 with his five clips and then the referee can decide for himself. you know, but this this uh this up and down in the in the media that wasn't that for me it was a disappointing part of the series. >> Yeah, Brennan Nick covered most of most

58:00 of the onfield stuff. You know, I I would just sum up and say driving malls. I'm a South African driving mall and scrums. Those those were my highlights of the series and and on the field and referees who allow it and and my

58:13 disappointments are referees who don't allow it. Um but I just sort of like they're going off field. Sia Khesi um hugging the children of of Audi Sevilla after Cape Town. That was mine. >> Yeah. No, that was that was a great

58:28 moment there. I I I mean I agree with everything almost everything you guys say there as well. I think the one thing I'd add is just maybe the other highlight for me was just that Lions game. um because that was the one tour

58:39 match that we saw what we wanted to see a team taking on the All Blacks and going toe-to-toe with them which I thought some of the other teams like the Sharks and the Bulls missed a trick there on on those as well. But what a

58:50 fascinating series it's been here three weeks in South Africa or five weeks in South Africa and uh yeah it's you want to come in again go >> yeah I was just going to say one other thing that that I've actually really

59:00 enjoyed and it's going to sound bloody strange to people out there. I've actually enjoyed being in Joberg. I like >> that's going to sound strange to people. >> I think is there something about this

59:11 place? There's something about this place that I really enjoy. It's like the potholes. There's potholes. There's no lights on some of the roads. Um I mean I got horribly lost one night because my phone wasn't working and I spent about

59:23 two hours driving around Joberg because I I cuz you know I'm not one of those people. I'm not an a generation X or whatever and I I used to have a good sense of direction. Um, but now we sort of rely on these damn phones to sort of

59:37 tell us where to go. And my phone had run out of battery at Pirate Sports Club. A big shout out to them as well. We spent a lot of time there. But I got lost that night and I spent two hours out there. It was ridiculous. But I

59:48 still love Joberg. >> To tell the tale, Gav, you live to tell the tale. That's the main thing. Having grown up in Jober, I I can I can say to you that that the city's got an amazing energy and we s we've met so many people

59:59 over the last couple of weeks and Pirates Sports Club. We found ourselves most times to go just have a have a sort of a unwind and have a beer. Uh what a great place. And and collegians as well in um in

1:00:12 >> crusaders. Crusaders not kill me for that one. >> Crusaders guys would hate that if you told them if you told them they were collegians. [laughter]

1:00:23 >> Yeah. No, you can see it's early Sunday morning. Anyway, on that note, let's leave it there. Say thanks guys. Um thanks for what a fascinating three tests we've had. And uh yeah, if you're watching this, thanks for watching this

1:00:33 and being with us along this journey. Uh if this is of course Talking Boks, proudly driven by Toyota. Uh please leave us leave us a comment, hit that subscribe button, and give us a thumbs up if you enjoyed the the episode. And

1:00:44 we'll chat to you sometime this week. We just got to see when with all the time differences when the Springboks and the All Blacks will be doing some media naming their team so we know what's going on. But we'll be back sometime in

1:00:55 this week, something in the middle of the week to chat about Baltimore and the the the very interesting test we're going to have there. So, thanks for watching and we'll chat to you guys soon. Cheers. When there's tough to be

1:01:05 done, you keep moving, driving endless hours with just your thoughts to keep you company. And along that journey, you'll have a silent partner, one that gets to work without

1:01:20 complaining or hesitating. Because when there's tough to be done. >> Is it a baky? >> No, it's a Hilux. >> There's the new generation Hilux

1:01:35 >> Talking Boks. [music] Proudly driven by Toyota.